The other night, Andy P and I renewed our ongoing discussion about how to represent the Adeptus Astartes with the VOR custom rules. Ever since we began considering this, we have had two different, but complimentary approaches to bringing everyone's favourite power-armoured genetically engineered super troopers into the Maelstrom. I went for a strictly legal translation which would mean that I wasn't subject to the whims of my opponents when fielding my lads. Andy translated 40K's d6 power levels into VOR's d10 system. This cannot be done within the limits of the custom rules.
Anyway, this got me thinking, and I decided to set out all the various options for wider consideration. Apart from clarifying my own design ideas, I'm hoping that we might be able to arrive at a consensus amounting to an 'official' G3 sanction for the full-powered version for those players who might want to use their space marines in VOR at their full glorious power levels.
Here are 3 versions of space marines and 3 versions of the bolter. Asterisks indicate stats exceeding the legal maxima.
My current (strictly legal) version
MP 12/8
RC 5/2
CC 5/4
POW 5/4
BOD 5/6
BRN 5/1
GUT 7/3
LIF 1
AR 5/15
PV 43
Full power v1 (rounded down)
MP 10
RC 6/3
CC 6/6
POW 6/6*
BOD 6/9*
BRN 4
GUT 7/4
LIF 1
AR 6/18
PV 46
Full power v2 (rounded up)
MP 10
RC 7/3*
CC 7/4*
POW 7/8*
BOD 7/12*
BRN 4
GUT 7/3
LIF 1
AR 7/21*
PV 51
Bolter PV 17 (1y wpn 15 PV)
POW/AM/MPC 4/-1/4
Range/RMods 10/20/30 +1/-/-1
Special UPT 2
Bolter MkII PV 20 (1y wpn 18 PV)
POW/AM/MPC 5/-1/5
Range/RMods 10/20/30 +1/-/-1
Special UPT 2
Bolter MkIIv2 PV 19 (1y wpn 17 PV)
POW/AM/MPC 5/-1/5
Range/RMods 6/12/24 +1/-/-1
Special UPT 2
Most of these numbers should be clear enough. For the bolters, I feel that UPT 2 is essential to represent both the weapon and its wielders. The idea of the Mk2v2 bolter is just to give the feel of the bolter being slightly shorter ranged than your average longarm. This may or may not be appropriate. Finally on the bolters: Andy P has often told me about the RT bolter's minimum range. This could be represented by using the -/+1/- RMods instead of the more common +1/-/-1.
With these numbers, my marines currently cost 58 PV. The full-powered versions cost 64 or 69 PV with the standard MkII bolter. That means you'd get up to a dozen in an all marine 750 PV force (which is one of the reasons I included Imperial Guard as well as Scouts in my own forcelist).
One thing worth noting about the full-powered versions is that it's only illegal in respect of its POW and BOD. Add in the fact that the slightly lower stats leave a little more room for special characters and other stuff above, and this makes the rounded down version my favourite candidate for the post of G3's official VOR space marine.
One minor problem with the full-powered versions is that the bolter's POW cannot really equal the marines' BOD, as it does in 40K. This is just possible with 5 BOD, but with BOD 6 or 7, there is no room above for heavy weapons. The POW 5 version of the bolter is plausible enough, with the proviso that, as a heavy weapon, it can only be the primary weapon of elite squads (you could have POW 5, AM 0, but I don't think that's a bolter myself). This doesn't seem like a serious problem to me, even if I don't like it much myself.
My current version of the Astartes has 12 MP because I liked the idea of them being able to fire 2 aimed bolter shots. Looking at these numbers, I've realised that MP 10 saves 8 PV, which I can use to buy the RC, CC, and AR up to their maxes. I'll probably do this because it'll give them the same chance to hit with their 2 shots/turn, and at a lower cost. I guess I'll be updating my lists soon.
Anyway, that's about it, except to ask for your comments. In particular, I myself would like to hear what you think about the idea of establishing official G3 house rules like the marine lists considered here. Just to be clear, what I am thinking about is indeed the idea of something that goes beyond the familiar idea of opponents' consent to 'like it or not'. I am aware that there might be difficulties associated with this sort of idea -mechanisms for establishing such new standards, newcomers' ignorance thereof, and so on- but I feel that a club is the ideal place for such practices and am keen to see our games' horizons expanded in this way.
"Remember each leaf and every blade of grass. Make them your friends before your foe makes them your enemies."
Franken Lar- Founding Chapter Master of Penumbra's Talons
Anyway, this got me thinking, and I decided to set out all the various options for wider consideration. Apart from clarifying my own design ideas, I'm hoping that we might be able to arrive at a consensus amounting to an 'official' G3 sanction for the full-powered version for those players who might want to use their space marines in VOR at their full glorious power levels.
Here are 3 versions of space marines and 3 versions of the bolter. Asterisks indicate stats exceeding the legal maxima.
My current (strictly legal) version
MP 12/8
RC 5/2
CC 5/4
POW 5/4
BOD 5/6
BRN 5/1
GUT 7/3
LIF 1
AR 5/15
PV 43
Full power v1 (rounded down)
MP 10
RC 6/3
CC 6/6
POW 6/6*
BOD 6/9*
BRN 4
GUT 7/4
LIF 1
AR 6/18
PV 46
Full power v2 (rounded up)
MP 10
RC 7/3*
CC 7/4*
POW 7/8*
BOD 7/12*
BRN 4
GUT 7/3
LIF 1
AR 7/21*
PV 51
Bolter PV 17 (1y wpn 15 PV)
POW/AM/MPC 4/-1/4
Range/RMods 10/20/30 +1/-/-1
Special UPT 2
Bolter MkII PV 20 (1y wpn 18 PV)
POW/AM/MPC 5/-1/5
Range/RMods 10/20/30 +1/-/-1
Special UPT 2
Bolter MkIIv2 PV 19 (1y wpn 17 PV)
POW/AM/MPC 5/-1/5
Range/RMods 6/12/24 +1/-/-1
Special UPT 2
Most of these numbers should be clear enough. For the bolters, I feel that UPT 2 is essential to represent both the weapon and its wielders. The idea of the Mk2v2 bolter is just to give the feel of the bolter being slightly shorter ranged than your average longarm. This may or may not be appropriate. Finally on the bolters: Andy P has often told me about the RT bolter's minimum range. This could be represented by using the -/+1/- RMods instead of the more common +1/-/-1.
With these numbers, my marines currently cost 58 PV. The full-powered versions cost 64 or 69 PV with the standard MkII bolter. That means you'd get up to a dozen in an all marine 750 PV force (which is one of the reasons I included Imperial Guard as well as Scouts in my own forcelist).
One thing worth noting about the full-powered versions is that it's only illegal in respect of its POW and BOD. Add in the fact that the slightly lower stats leave a little more room for special characters and other stuff above, and this makes the rounded down version my favourite candidate for the post of G3's official VOR space marine.
One minor problem with the full-powered versions is that the bolter's POW cannot really equal the marines' BOD, as it does in 40K. This is just possible with 5 BOD, but with BOD 6 or 7, there is no room above for heavy weapons. The POW 5 version of the bolter is plausible enough, with the proviso that, as a heavy weapon, it can only be the primary weapon of elite squads (you could have POW 5, AM 0, but I don't think that's a bolter myself). This doesn't seem like a serious problem to me, even if I don't like it much myself.
My current version of the Astartes has 12 MP because I liked the idea of them being able to fire 2 aimed bolter shots. Looking at these numbers, I've realised that MP 10 saves 8 PV, which I can use to buy the RC, CC, and AR up to their maxes. I'll probably do this because it'll give them the same chance to hit with their 2 shots/turn, and at a lower cost. I guess I'll be updating my lists soon.
Anyway, that's about it, except to ask for your comments. In particular, I myself would like to hear what you think about the idea of establishing official G3 house rules like the marine lists considered here. Just to be clear, what I am thinking about is indeed the idea of something that goes beyond the familiar idea of opponents' consent to 'like it or not'. I am aware that there might be difficulties associated with this sort of idea -mechanisms for establishing such new standards, newcomers' ignorance thereof, and so on- but I feel that a club is the ideal place for such practices and am keen to see our games' horizons expanded in this way.
"Remember each leaf and every blade of grass. Make them your friends before your foe makes them your enemies." Franken Lar- Founding Chapter Master of Penumbra's Talons
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